Féliciter ce que le ton et la voix de ce podcast est et ce genre de gens que nous voulons avoir et ce genre de
focus que nous voulons avoir sur le podcast.
Ce n'est pas vraiment de la growth, ce n'est pas comme, on n'est pas comme, en passant les plus grands names que nous pouvons trouver seulement.
On est plus heureux de avoir un personne qui fait un outil qui n'a que quelques gens qui utilisent ça. C'est totalement valide.
Hello, welcome to the DevTools FM podcast. This is a podcast about developer tools and the people who make them. I'm Andrew and here's my co-host Justin in real life.
Hi everyone.
So this is a little bit of a special episode. Today we aren't going to be talking with anybody else other than us.
We're going to take a look back on where DevTools started and how we got here and what we plan to do in the future.
A nice retrospective episode. We've been doing this for a year, a little bit more than a year now.
Yeah, I think we started in April.
Yeah, yeah, so getting close there. Yeah, it just felt like a good time to look back on everything that we've done and all the people we've talked about and get some history on the podcast and maybe even talk about where we want to take it in the future.
Yeah, so I think what would be good to start out with talking with is how this podcast even started. It's kind of a funny story.
I don't think either me or Justin really set out to make a podcast or I really never thought of making a podcast.
It was more of a joke to start off with.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's it's very funny how little thought was put into all of this.
So around a year ago, I decided to leave my job at Intuit and start seeking a job elsewhere.
And the one company that really piqued my interest was a company called Descript.
If you don't know what Descript is, Descript is a video audio editing tool that works based off of a transcript.
And it is mainly used to edit podcasts.
So as a joke, Justin was like, hey, let's let's start a podcast.
What can go wrong?
Well, there's a little context here.
So at that time, I was working at a company called Artsy and Artsy had its own internal podcast.
And we were going through the phase around that same time of like, oh, what sort of editing software should we use for the podcast?
And I'd seen Descript and I thought like, hey, this is, well, first, it's like an amazing use of AI.
So like Descript has the ability to like do overdev voices, which we haven't really taken advantage of.
But I was like, oh, this is awesome.
I definitely want to use this.
And then people at Artsy were like, ah, well, you know, this isn't really exactly what we want to use.
We want to use all this stuff.
I was like, oh, I want to reason to use it.
So it just felt perfect.
It's like, you're already working there.
It's like, why don't we do a podcast?
Yeah.
And from there, like we just, we spitballed maybe like one or two ideas back and forth.
I checked, I was just checking domains and I'm like, OK, we like DevTools and we're going to make a podcast devtools.fm.
And it was right there.
And we were actually very surprised that it wasn't taken and wasn't already a thing.
Yeah, that pretty much solidified it, I think.
It was just like, if you have a really good domain, you just got to do it.
The classic developer problem of starting a project by buying a domain.
Yeah, yeah.
That's definitely how we started this podcast, too.
Yeah, it's funny.
Like, we've basically just, we connected through open source a while back, like 2019, sometimes.
This is only our second time ever seeing each other in person.
Yeah, yeah.
The first time we ever saw each other was in 2019 at TSConf in Seattle.
Yeah, that was a good.
It was.
It feels like a lifetime ago.
It really does.
It was a different world back then, in many respects.
For sure, for sure, for sure.
But yeah, it just kind of kicked off.
And then I think the thing that's a little bit surprising about podcasts is like,
there's a lot of tools that a podcast requires to get going,
because you have to think about a lot of stuff.
It's like, you know, recording is one thing, editing another thing,
then like advertising your podcast, syndicating it, like all that stuff.
Hosting it, like getting it to all the different platforms.
Yeah, yeah, it's a lot.
Right now, we don't do sponsorships or anything.
This is totally, we pay for everything out of pocket.
I think I should have pulled up the budget sheet before we looked at this.
But I think we have like around like $300 a month and just costs.
Oh, we do.
Yeah, yeah, something like that.

Just in software subscriptions.
So this is like scheduling.
So we use SaviCal for scheduling, which is great.
Not necessarily cheapest option, but it is really, really good.
And then we use what?
Later for.
We do use later.
That that price goes up and down, depending on how high a quality video I want to put out.
But I think we're back on the free tier from that for that actually.
Then we have a buzz sprout for syndication.
Versailles has graciously sponsored our site.
So they do site or hosting for a site.
And then Descript, we have a sponsored account from them, which is, which is amazing.
It's also been a really good opportunity for you to like dog food, the product.
Yeah.
Like before I went to Descript, I was a large advocate for dog food in your own code,
which for our listeners who might not know, dog fooding is where you make a thing.
So you use the thing.
A place where I use that a lot was in my open source package auto auto uses itself
to release itself, and I was using it all the time.
So I feel by dog fooding a product, you can really take the stance of a user
and create a better product.
And so I thought, why not?
I'm at a job where we make podcasts.
Like, why don't I make a podcast?
How how bad could that be?
And it has been it's been a great experience.
Like I know the product better than I could have ever possibly like even fathomed.
Like if I wasn't making a podcast and it's kind of like an intuit like line,
but it's helped me develop that customer empathy.
So like I can really be in the in the shoes of the customer going like, well, Descript's awesome.
But like, what are these things that I can do better to make it better?
And it's it's been a really fun experience.
Yeah.
I mean, and I'm sure for a product as complex as Descript is, it's like having
that opportunity to to sit down a little bit and play with it.
It's it's not just like, oh, I play with it for a few minutes
and I kind of get this.
It's like, hey, I'm continually editing podcasts.
And these are the pain points that I'm feeling all the time.
Yeah, I'd say without Descript, we probably would never made this podcast.
Just first, because we never had the impetus to create the podcast.
But second, like editing a podcast is a lot of fucking work.
Like even with Descript, like sometimes it'll take me four hours to edit a podcast.
And like, that's that's a lot of time.
Yeah, when we started this, it took longer and we were doing weekly episodes.
We did like 10, 10 or so episodes weekly.

We weekly release cadence was a bit too much for us.
I felt like I was always doing podcast things.
Now with the bi weekly cadence, I can feel like, oh, it's my week off.
I don't have to do anything time to play video games.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For sure.
That's the that's the thing that we've kind of got into.
It's like, you do most of the editing and and I know that it takes up a lot of time.
I try to pitch in when I can, but it's like something that like hiring
an editor would be super nice.
I mean, Descript does make it shorter, but I mean, it's still a still huge commitment.
So yeah, if you're out there thinking about starting a podcast, just know
that especially in the early days, it is a huge time commitment, the very least
and a bit of a financial commitment, depending on what functionality you want,
like how you want to reach your audience, all that stuff.
Yeah.
We did, we did spend a good amount of time, though, at the start, just kind of
having fun and like building the website.
Like before we even made an episode, we were like, OK, let's make a really
pretty website.
Let's set up a repo with a lot of automation, so we don't have to care
about any of this.
And that was like a fun weekend project or two.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we used, we used a library of Intuit, like the, the DevTools.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So good.
So it like, it re-implements what it would look like DevTools, like in
Chrome, or Firefox, or whatever.
And we have that, so it looks like an expector panel on the website.
He's like, got all the information.
And yeah, it's, it's pretty slick.

It's fun.
Another case of like, oh, I'm just going to make a website.
I'll follow through with the actual content later.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.




It's, it's been good.
It's been good, though.
I mean, the website's been, we haven't really changed it much since we started it.
It's, it's been chugging.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I guess we did add a little bit of about our equipment.
You have better equipment than I do.
Yeah.
I need to, I need to invest in my setup a little bit more.

Yeah.
That's, yeah.
That's, that's something that we had to learn a lot, a lot about too.
Because like, while before this podcast, I knew about like audio equipment, I guess.
Now I really know about it.
Like I, I had to buy a microphone amp for this nice sure SM7B.
So like, I really know the ins and outs of audio now, for sure.
Yeah.
And there's, there's like software to go along with that.
So we use crisp a lot to filter out audio.
Unless you're trying to do two channel audio like we're doing today.
And then crisp treats somebody as background.
So that's no good.
So I'll be doing it in post.
A lot of post work.
A lot of post work.

What do you find, what do you think is the hardest part of editing?
The, the hardest part, like when, when the transcript is good, like editing is a breeze.
It's just like, I'm just like composing what is already there.
But since Descript is a transcript based editing tool, and both me and Justin do
have a passion for accessible experiences.
Having a transcript that is correct is like, it's a huge amount of work, but
it's also super important to us.
So people in other languages can come and enjoy the podcast too, just by maybe
just translating a part of it.
And when we have a person who is not of us descent, the predominant AI algorithms
to transcribe speech are not trained on non us English speakers.
So if an episode features someone that is not from the US editing will typically
take two to three times longer, then a lot of people would say, well, you work at
Descript Andrew, why don't you make that better?
Tell someone to make that better?
Well, Descript is actually not a transcription service.
We use a transcription service, which is something a lot of people might not,
not get once, once they first look at Descript.
Like me, even I was like, oh, they, they make really good transcription AI and
some of that overdub API AI.
But nope, that's, that's all a third party.
So if you want to implement transcription in your service, Rev.
AI is pretty okay, except for US speakers.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, and this is a classic like bias and AI thing, right?
It's, it's interesting that the, I mean, AI systems often just have the same
biases that the people implementing them have, like for better or worse.
Even if you don't know about them, like the people implementing those
probably, probably wasn't thinking about that there, just like, let's get a lot
of data, that data will be good enough.
And broadly, this is why diverse teams are important.
Getting off on some big tangents here, but yeah.
Because, you know, you might not have the perspective to see all the things
que tu miss, yeah, and that's important.
Yeah.
I mean, editing transcripts and getting those correct is important, but it's
also hard and it's like easy to miss a lot of stuff.
Because you have to think it's like, you could get it 100% correct and
spend like, you know, five, six hours on it easy, but spending all that time
isn't, isn't always viable.

Yeah.
After transcription, I'd say the, the hardest part has just been marketing.
Like marketing is a constant worry.
Like I do take the off weeks off of marketing, usually now, just cause I
don't want to wake up every morning and create social clips.
But getting our podcast in front of new eyes is definitely a hard problem
and a lot of work.
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
And you've done great work on that.
Yeah.
It was like, and services like later, like definitely help to syndicate it out
to like different platforms or whatever.
But I mean, making the social clips and like grabbing something
that's interesting is, is, yeah, it's important and tough.
But yeah.
Yeah, it's, it's definitely been a workflow that I've had to like come
into like at first, like us, like, we didn't know what to grab for a clip.
We didn't even know we were going to do clips.
So now as part of the editing process, it's almost like even the main point,
it's like correct, correct the transcript.
And then after that's done, be looking for one, one to two minutes segments.
That would be good for Twitter and could be good for TikTok.
Yep.

Building off the tool tip that Steve left us.
It's like, you know, those little, little quick snippets on Twitter
to get people really excited.
It's hard with a podcast, though, because like he can, he can speed up
his UI and like show us a cool interaction.
We can't speed up people talking.
Yeah.
We can't speed you up.
And typically, we're not getting a point across anywhere closer
than like 40 to 50 seconds.
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.
Yeah.
Getting us good soundbites, hard.
Something that's actually been not as hard is just getting people in the door
or just like talking to people.
It turns out that most people are excited to talk to you.
Unless they're, you know, extremely professional.
Yeah.
There's some people that we would really love to talk to, but, you know,
have a little bit of a hard time, but.
Yeah, it's been surprising.
Like we had like Rich Harris on like Episode 12.
We had Evan Yu on Episode 14.
So like.
Yeah, I mean, some of that's been made easier by the fact that we both
know a lot of people.
Say you, you're more the connection machine than me.
Well, I've lived in, I've lived in New York since 2017.
And just because I'm there, I get to meet a lot of people
in the developer community.
So I met Vue at some Vue meetups in New York.
I met Rich, same thing, just going to meetups.
And yeah, you know, it's it's being able to tap into that network has been great.
But also just developers generally just like talking.
You know, so it's like, you know.
Like past us reaching out, it's been surprising and heartwarming.
How many people have reached out to us to want to come on to here?
Like with with like barely and like not even a year's worth of episodes out,
people are already like people that we respect are already reaching out to us.
Like, hey, I'd like to come on and talk about this.
One of the tensions that we have to really kind of figure out is how much we balance
like who we invite on versus like who like comes to us.
It's like, hey, you know, I'd like to talk about essentially my product, you know,
like working on this, this cool project.
I think your listeners would enjoy it.
So when we started the podcast, it was really with emphasis on like,
we want to talk to people who build tools and like who are really passionate
about building tools, because we're really passionate about building tools.
And that was like the kind of, you know, the personal connection
behind the tooling is the thing that we're really going for.
And podcasts are great marketing opportunities broadly.
And like, if people want exposure for their tools, you know,
like getting on podcasts is a great way to do that.
So we have this tension of like when someone reaches out to us
and they're like, hey, you know, we've got this product,
we'd really like to talk about it on your channel.
We think your listeners would enjoy it.
It's like, do we engage in that?
You know, sometimes it's like an easy answer
because like we've used the tool and like, oh, yeah, this is so cool.
Yeah, we want to talk about it.
But sometimes it's harder because it's like, oh, we haven't,
we've never used this and we really don't, we really aren't super interested
in using it directly.
And you know, it's like kind of a muddier thing.
And I think that's a, that's a thing that we still have to work
through figuring out, like, how do we approach that, you know?
Yeah, definitely something we still still haven't figured out.
It's, it's, it's a, it's a weird line to walk
because it's like, you have real people reaching you out, out to you
who are like small time creators, really,
that are just trying to monetize their product.
Whereas like if they were just like an open source person
with an open repo, we'd be like, oh, yeah, come on, why not?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And saying no is, is hard because it's like,
we don't really want to say no, right?
But it's just like,
I never imagined I'd have to say.
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's such a,
it's such a privilege to have that problem.
But, you know, it's like, how do we be respectful about this?
And I think that's still something we have to work through.
It's just like, you know, what does that look like?
I mean, obviously, if people come to us, we, we want to want to hear them out.
We want to, you know, I don't know, we want to share, but.
It's just figuring out, like what the tone and voice of the podcast is
and what kind of people we want to have on
and what kind of focus we want to have on the podcast.
It's not really about growth.
It's not like, we're not like going after the biggest names we can find
only, like we're, we're more than happy to have a person
on who makes a tool that only has a few, a few people using it.
Like that's totally, totally valid.

A lot of times it's the person's passion for building stuff
that's like the funnest thing.
And anytime you talk to someone who's just like really excited to build,
that's like.
Yeah, the Steve Ruiz episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
20 minutes of a man who is just nothing but excited for everything
he's talking about.
Exactly, actually.
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's amazing.
And, you know, that's, that's what really brings a lot of joy
and like continuing to do this.

Yeah, and those episodes, when we're off caramel, you just see us like this.
Like in the footage, it's just like, yes, yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, and it's really interesting how that can vary from episode to episode.
So it's like sometimes it's like, you know, it's like,
this is, this is our stuff.
This is like amazing.
And then sometimes it's like a little bit harder
because like somebody can still be passionate about something
that you haven't used or like aren't, you like don't know.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's a good thing to talk about.
We do do a little bit of preparation before our episodes.
So we try to put together a set of questions
in a Google doc, which we're probably going to start using Google doc
because permissions are paying in the butt.
But that's been useful just as a organization mechanism
just to kind of collect our thoughts
so that we have something to build the episode off of.
Yeah.
We say to all our guests, it's a framework for the episode.
It's not like the only things we're going to say.
It's it's definitely nice to have like at least 10 points
of things we want to go through.
And it's funny how like often we'll be going through this
and then the guest, it just starts answering all our questions
without even knowing about them.
And it's like, oh, no, no, no.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but that's good.
And I also love it when like we have such a great conversation
that we just completely go off the rails
and we start talking about a lot of stuff
because that's that's like the really fun episodes.
Yeah, we try to keep each like conversation
with the creator about the tool to around 40 minutes.
But if the conversation goes long,
that's that's where you get those hour and a half episodes.
It's like we blow past 40 minutes
or like an hour and 10.
We're like, OK, we got to get tool tips and let's wrap this up.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. And oftentimes, they're like longer
than what people see because we edit them down.
There's a lot of filler words that we take out,
just like stuff like that, like silences or whatever.
A very contentious topic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We've we've had a lot of feedback
that we we do too many edits.
Yeah.
But.
You know, you want it to you want the pacing to be good.
So we do put this up on YouTube too.
And and when you're an audio edit
that like takes out some sound, it's fine.
But the video edit might the people might jump around or something,
you know, and it's like kind of jarring
if you're watching the video.
But, you know.
Part of it.
Got to make the pie some way.
Yeah, yeah.
So why don't we talk a little bit about us?
Where we're at, where we've been, where we're going.
Yeah, yeah.
So.
When we started the podcast, it was when you just started Descript.
This is the smallest startup that you've ever worked at.
It's the smallest company I've ever worked at.
Professionally as a coder, I've and even non professionally as an intern,
the only company I've ever worked at before Descript was into it.
I did work at like a very small, like local software company and slow.
But there's you couldn't you couldn't paint me as a developer on that job.
Like they hired me as a software intern that had me do data entry.
And then their database analysts quit and they're like, oh, you can do that, right?
And then I was fired within a few weeks
because I did not know how to be a database administrator and I fucked it up.
Yeah, who to guess.
DBA is hard.
That's hard.
Yeah, they have me shadow a guy for like two weeks and like, yeah,
this will be enough.
You can run the operations for us.
You college student with one year of experience.
Yeah, getting what they asked for.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I was I was that into it.
I was writing design system code and a lot of tools around that.
But a lot throughout my career, I was like,
but look at that full stack over there.
Look at that hill to conquer.
And I was just like, I wanted to get a resume item
that said I could at least do it because for years,
I had been interviewing to try to get like more into full stack.
And every time people were like, you don't have the experience.
And finally, I was able to convince Descript to hire me as a full stack
and finally wrote some back end code.
Probably wasn't the best code, but now I know SQL a little more.
And since.
Going from a large company with a lot of time
and a lot of money to get the accessibility and the details right
and then going to a small company where it's a completely different environment.
I saw a lot of things that had to change.
So as as a year progressed, I I harped on it more and more.
I'm like design system, design system, design system.
And that's what I've been working on for the past two months.
So that's probably why you've heard
a bunch of different tooltips from me
around Rattx, because I spend most of my day with my code
that are open and then Rattx open to the side
as I try to figure out what I'm doing wrong.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Design systems are a lot of fun.
I've worked a lot in design systems, too.
Yeah.
So it's a fun like tooling space,
because like you're you're really just making code
for another developer to use.
So you're really just making a tool,
but you're having a huge heavy influence
on what the actual product becomes in the end.
Yeah, it's it's all about like it's all about constraints
and making the constraints real.
Building a system for those constraints is a fun thing
because you have this conversation with design.
It's like, hey, here's our sort of base intent.
And I think the thing that I really love about design systems
is it connects you close to design
and you have to give a lot of feedback on the design.
You know, so it's like you come up with a constraints
and you have to ensure that the constraints are held to.
Even on the design side, you're like, hey, well, actually,
you know, having a link here is not normally a thing that we do
because like if you look at these other examples
and like sometimes it's like, you know,
you have to have that back and forth to like change the design
to be, you know, apply to the system or whatever.
Yeah, like what's actually a tool tip?
That's that's a big question.
And if you read through the radix issues,
they know exactly what a tool tip is
and they will tell you that that is not a tool tip.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I mean, figuring out what those constraints are
and where to draw the boundaries are is the fun part.
And and you make a lot of micro decisions
that people upstream don't have to worry about.
All right, they have an API
that they provided, they have all these permanences
that they use and it's good to go, which is amazing.
That's that's a fun and exciting word.
Yeah, I mean, it's a tool, right?
So it is.
Yeah, we're building tools for other developers to do stuff.
Yeah, and then once you're done building the tool,
you build tools for the tools.
So I built a snippet library.
I built I built design token intelligence.
Like, yeah, yeah, it goes further and further.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's it's almost it's almost a DX role,
kind of developer experience role,
where it's just a lot of like building tools,
building utilities, building automations,
making the sort of transition from design
to sort of product smoother.
Yeah. Yeah.
And it centers around a lot around documentation,
which has been like of like the
if you could summarize my career,
it's just like write better docs.
Like, I've written myself two different mark,
act maybe even three different markdown documentation generators.
Nice, nice.
So it's a it's a place I have a lot of passion for
and design systems comes into that heavily
because like, for example, into it.
Our design system documentation was supposed to serve developers
and designers too.
So like, there's a lot of thinking that goes into that.
And then, yeah.
Yeah, I love JS doc.
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty awesome.
Yeah. So.
Wow, where was I when this podcast started?
I was still at artsy at the time.
So I.
Was a full stack at artsy,
worked there for a few years,
almost three years to a day.
Really great time.
Love the team.
Things changed a little bit
at the end of my tenure at artsy.
And I was definitely like feeling pretty burn out
because I was a tech lead at the end of my tenure
and mad respect for all you tech leads out there.
It's it's a lot to juggle figuring out
like how much day to day I see individual contributed work
to you have to do versus.
You know, planning, working with the PM, working with design,
pairing with people, un blocking folks,
like doing all that stuff.
It can be.
Yeah, it can be very thankless.
Roll entirely.
Yeah.
It's pretty challenging.
So I think artsy has a particularly strong.
Challenge to work through where their tech lead roles is.
Voluntary, it's like a volunteer position.
C'est pas like a role.
C'est pas like a.
No accolades, no salary.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's just like, hey, would you like to try this and, you know,
a lot of responsibility.
But anyway, I.
Was was doing that and I'd gotten really burned out
parce que c'est comme, tu sais, coming up on les pandémiques
et comme, going through all that stuff.
Et je suis à la point où je ne m'en ai pas vraiment
vraiment pu couper.
So I.
Je suis à la place et j'ai juste pris un peu de temps.
Je suis au centre de la recours,
comme, c'est vraiment la prochaine semaine après la recours.
Et le centre de recours est ce
programme de la ville de New York City.
Il n'était pas en personne, c'était remote,
mais c'est une communauté phénoménale.
Si quelqu'un est intéressé, vous pouvez le trouver.
Je pense que c'est recours.com.
Mais de toute façon, si vous avez juste de la recours,
vous allez voir.
Grat, une communauté structurelle, c'est un programme libre.
Vous avez à faire un petit peu d'interview pour
s'en aller, mais c'est pas trop mal
et c'est une communauté super supportée.
Donc je suis en train de faire ça un peu.
Et puis à la, ou bien plus de l'année,
j'ai commencé le travail que je travaille maintenant,
ce qui est au système d'oxydation,
ce qui est au système d'oxydation.
C'est une chose intéressante.
Donc nous sommes construit en service custom.
Ce qu'uguent comme le 기본 du coach d'expertise du
надそう ?
ranch Drawer?
Non, on y est.
Ça ditrence tanks, hein?

5 au 20 du bitcoin.
On a de l'expérience trimming.
C'est un activists ass탕 Charlemagne.

On a vraiment des sacrifices qu'on People Man et

Mais oui, c'est ce que j'ai été en train de faire, je pense que c'est un moment d'adolescence.
Oui, c'est un monde qui a été gagné l'année dernière.
Un peu de choses ont changé, mais je pense que c'est pour le meilleur.
Oui, oui, absolument.
Oui, mais je trouve moi en travaillant sur le système de design,
aussi, j'ai fait beaucoup de thémé-word récemment,
ce qui a été beaucoup de plaisir.
Mais c'est intéressant que nous sommes tous
sortir naturellement gravités vers ce endroit.
J'aime toujours la frontière.
Le fait d'avoir quelque chose de bloquant sur la table
est comme mon hobby, basically.
Oui, oui.
Tous les nouveaux programmes, même si je sais que pas tout le monde veut la frontière de la frontière,
j'ai essayé de le mettre en place pour la frontière,
parce que c'est comme, vous voulez instant gratification ?
Oui, c'est beaucoup de plaisir.
Je suis allé à l'école pour l'ingénierie des computers,
donc j'ai fait des choses comme C++ et de la frontière de la frontière.
Mais mon premier UI de développement,
c'est un library appelé InCurses,
qui vous permet de faire des interfaces de texte,
et vous pouvez faire des boîtes et des trucs sur la table.
J'ai fait un jeu solitaire qui peut se passer sur le terminal.
C'était mon premier UI de développement.
C'est comme de commencer à connecter les dots
entre la code et ce qu'on peut interagir.
Avant, je n'avais pas compris
comment quelqu'un peut construire quelque chose comme Microsoft Word.
Je ne l'ai pas compris.
Et maintenant, je peux connecter les dots.
Oui, c'est un peu de problème.
Mon premier UI que j'ai développé
était en première quarte de l'école à Cal Poly.
On a eu une classe de développement Android.
On a fait une app appelée Chow Pals,
qui était « Find a pal to eat with » dans le hall de la pavére.
Je l'aime.
C'est bon.
Oui.
Je n'ai pas eu trop de projets d'autres.
J'ai pris un très long temps
dans mon premier cours de programme,
en disant que c'est le projet que je vais faire.
Je vais changer tout.
Je vais commencer à me tuer.
Je suis en train de faire un projet
avec Chromecast YouTube.
Et Chromecast est là,
et je vais dire, je vais t'en parler.
Oui, je suis toujours en train de changer tout.
Pour moi, c'est un tout.
Je ne vais pas utiliser tout.
Je pense que c'est la seule chose que nous avons trouvé
pour faire tout ce qu'on a fait.
C'est un projet qui est très important.
C'est un projet qui est très important.

C'est un projet qui est très important.



C'est un projet qui est très important.
C'est un projet qui est très important.
C'est un projet qui est très important.
C'est un projet qui est très important.







Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.


Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.











Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.

Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.





Je vais te parler.


Je vais te parler.













Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.










Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.
Je vais te parler.

J'ai Tibetanemyink para mortMonast مي
waterfall
My accumulated
n'a pas d'argent, peut-être qu'ils sont en fait des épisodes sponsorisés où vous êtes
en train de payer pour une adverteur avec nous. Nous allons toujours parler de la créateur
dans un moyen que nous serions avec quelqu'un d'autre. Nous sommes toujours en train de parler
de la shop avec le tournage, mais ce tournage a un peu plus d'intérêt investi dans les
personnes qui sont en train de entendre le podcast et de faire quelque chose.
Oui, absolument. Et ça pourrait être potentiellement une bonne balance.
On a des produits et des balances qui sont venus, on peut parler de la CEO ou d'autres
qui sont en train de nous donner ceci. Et c'est comme, oui, on peut faire un épisode sponsorisé.
Et je pense que ce qui est important pour moi est que nous le faisons très explicitement et très
clair. C'est comme, hey, c'est un épisode sponsorisé. Mais oui, ça pourrait être une bonne chose.
C'est tout de même. Mais en gardant le sole de le podcast où nous sommes vraiment
voulus parler à des gens qui aiment les choses et qui aiment les choses. C'est important.
Oui, et quelque chose comme un patron qui va vraiment aider, aider à profiter de ça.
Comme, en avoir une communauté active, je pense que ça serait très intéressant.
Donc, une des idées que nous avons joué avec, et nous avons allé à l'inverse,
c'est que nous avons currently été utilisées par Google Docs pour, comme,
prendre toutes les questions ensemble, nous partager avec nos guests,
ils ont mis les conseils de la tool et nous utilisons pour l'épisode.
L'idée que nous avons joué avec est d'utiliser des discussions GitHub pour cela,
en fait. Donc, si vous vous souveniez, vous pourrez avoir accès à ce repos privé. Vous
pouvez poser des problèmes dans ce repos privé en disant, hey, je veux que vous ayez ce
personne et parlez de ce topic parce que je pense que c'est intéressant. Et puis,
en utilisant ça, nous pouvons agir sur tout votre réponse à ça et si vous
voulez ça, vous pouvez aller en vote. Et puis, quand on en vote, Justin a appris
une idée intéressante où nous pouvons utiliser des discussions GitHub pour
poser ces épisodes. Et ce qui signifie que, depuis que c'est une discussion,
vous pouvez être partie de cette discussion. Si vous avez une question que vous avez
été déçue pour poser à ce créateur que nous allons avoir, vous pouvez facilement
poser à ce créateur et, plus probablement que pas, nous allons essayer de l'intégrer
dans l'épisode.
Oui, oui. Oui, je veux dire, juste de faire des points pour les gens
qui sont intéressés. Et, vous savez, c'est, nous avons toutes ces bonnes
connecteurs, nous pouvons parler à tous ces bonnes personnes et puis, vous savez,
il y a beaucoup de gens qui ne sont pas en contact avec les connecteurs. Et, vous
savez, peut-être que vous pouvez avoir des questions à poser ou tout.
Oui, nous avons essayé de se réunir pour un moment. Je pense que nous allons
revenir avec le merch. Je n'étais pas heureux avec la qualité de notre merch
quand j'ai l'air. Donc, quand nous avons la qualité, c'est certain. Mais,
hey, qui est-ce que vous voulez dire ? Peut-être que dans le futur, nous avons beaucoup
de gens qui l'entendent dans le podcast. Nous pouvons faire des meetups.
Oui, ça serait génial.
Ça serait génial. Nous pouvons avoir des gens que nous avons eu à la conversation.
Oui, oui. Nous pensons potentiellement à faire un espace Twitter.
Oxide fait un espace Twitter régulièrement sur Monday. C'est très populaire. Et,
vous savez, ça serait un autre moyen de faire un guest dans le salle avec,
vous savez, beaucoup de communauté. Oui, beaucoup d'idées, beaucoup de choses
que nous pouvons faire. Je pense que le point est, c'est que le point de
faire ce que nous faisons est de se faire en s'assistant. Et ça signifie qu'il y a
beaucoup de textes, de choses que nous devons faire, et de se faire en savoir comment
nous avons même pris le temps et où ça va et ce que ça veut dire.
C'est un grand milestone à faire. Mais c'est quelque chose que nous
nous faisons de plus en plus. Ce qui sera très intéressant. C'est un petit podcast de
bébé, en plus de plus. Oui, c'est incroyable de voir comment
nous avons vécu dans un an. Je ne sais pas ce que le podcast normal se trouve
comme en termes de grosses. Mais je me sens comme que nous avons été en un
très stupide uptick. L'une des épisodes se trouve un peu plus
plus que l'autre. Nous avons plus de interactions sur les plateformes sociales.
Donc, ça va en quelque part. Oui, c'est incroyable. C'est incroyable.
Un autre chose que nous avons sorti de discuter dans le passé, et je n'aurais pas
envie de faire, c'est juste de faire tous nos stats et tout, très ouvert.
Donc, spécialement, quand nous commençons à prendre des donations ou de
sponsors, ou tout ça, on fait tout ça très visible.
Donc, les gens qui sont intéressés et qui font leur propre podcast, peuvent
venir voir ces choses. C'est comme, oh, comment ça fonctionne,
comment les finances fonctionnent, tout ça. Et aussi,
je veux dire, les analytiques et tout comme ça. Il y a beaucoup de choses que
nous pouvons partager avec la communauté, mais comme ce whole processus.
Oui, c'est vraiment cool si une autre personne veut venir en train de commencer un podcast
et juste être comme, OK, je suis forké, DevTools FM.
Oui, oui.
Settant un bon modèle, j'aime juste savoir ce genre d'équipement qu'on a à
donner, ce genre de software pour utiliser, tout ça.
Oui, parce que ce n'était pas triviel.
Non, c'est de la travail.
On a probablement pris un bon mois ou deux, juste en pensant sur tout ça.
Et puis, on a interprété ça plus tard.
Un peu de gens dans les commentaires ont dit,
Hey, Andrew, votre background, c'est toujours très malade.
Pourquoi est-ce que ton fiancé travaille sur un table de cuisine ?
C'est ce que l'on a promis.
Je suis un meilleur microphone.
Toutes ces choses sont parce que de la feedback de l'usage.
Oui, oui, oui.
Donc, on apprécie votre feedback et on le read.
Et un peu de vous
nous a dit beaucoup de chers sur notre édition et autres choses.
Nous vous entendons.
Oui, nous le entendons.
C'est un bon plan pour les gens.
Parce que nous avons un podcast très informel.
Ce sont des conversations, c'est des conversations comme
personne ne performing, personne ne donner un talk,
mais on veut toujours nos guests
pour mettre leur meilleur foot en ligne.
Donc, parfois, on peut prendre des stutters,
on peut prendre des fausses start,
peut-être que les connections se sont déclarées
et que vous ne savez même pas,
et je dois se coucher ensemble le vidéo.
Donc, oui.
Oui, je veux dire,
l'adresse est d'héritage
parce que ça réduit un peu la pression
pour pouvoir le faire en première fois.
On n'a pas de stop et de récourdage.
Si on se met en milieu, c'est bien.
Oui, je ne vais pas nommer les noms,
mais on a eu un épisode où un de nos guests,
le premier podcast qu'ils avaient jamais été sur,
ils étaient très nerveux.
En plusieurs fois,
quand ils étaient en question,
ils se sont frazzés et se disent
« Je suis désolé, je suis désolé ».
Donc, il y a des fois où nous devons
mettre un petit magie de film.
Et puis, vous ne vous en avez pas.
Je suis sûr que vous ne pouvez pas même
rappeler ce que je parle de l'épisode.
Oui, et pour une bonne raison.
Ce n'est pas un truc que nous sortons.
Nous ne voulons pas être un guest
pour ne pas se dépasser.
Oui.
Et on n'a pas de souci
de ne pas éditer tout,
de ne pas éditer tout
que les gens parlent de ou quelque chose.
Et c'est un point important.
Mais juste de la faire
smooth et flow,
et de réduire les pauses
et tout ça.
C'est juste le travail de la base
qui est important
pour la qualité.
C'est difficile de voir.
Mais si vous êtes intéressés
à entendre ce que vous devez s'inscrire,
parce que c'est l'une des choses
que vous allez probablement faire
est de mettre plus de la photo
en édite en édite
à la Patreon.
Donc si vous voulez entendre
tous ces oeufs,
vous pouvez payer 5 dollars
pour entendre ça.
Un privilège.
Oui.
Très bien.
Oui, oui, oui.
C'est assez excitant,
c'est très bien.
Je suis excité
pour toutes les conversations
que nous avons en train de venir.
Nous avons un
qui est très bientôt
que je suis vraiment excité.
Un autre Steve.
Le Steve.
Le Steve est bon.
Et oui, je ne sais pas.
On va voir où il va.
Oui, le ciel est limité.
Mais oui, c'est beaucoup de fun.
Et,
vous savez,
évidemment,
merci à tous les gens
pour l'entraînement,
pour la réunition,
pour donner vos réponses.
Nous sommes tous
assez approachables.
Donc si vous vous arrêtez
sur Twitter,
sur la plateforme,
vous êtes sur,
nous sommes probablement là
et probablement actifs.
Donc,
n'hésitez pas à dire hi.
Vous savez,
si vous voulez
vous demandez quelque chose,
maintenant,
si vous voulez vraiment
parler d'un autre,
vous pouvez le tweeter
sur notre account de FMI.
Et nous verrons ça.
Oui, nous verrons tout.
Oui, oui.
Oui,
mais oui,
c'est beaucoup de fun.
Oui.
Dès que c'est un épisode spécial,
nous ne serons pas
en train de faire des tutoriels
cette semaine,
mais vous pouvez vous remercier
à votre programme
régulièrement
de tutoriels
pour le prochain épisode.
Oui, pour sûr.
Pour sûr.
Je veux juste
remercier tous les tutoriels
que nous avons eu à la fois.
C'est un blast.
Tout le temps,
je vois un message
où quelqu'un est comme
j'adore votre podcast.
Merci pour le follow.
C'est un peu de la mienne.
Je ne pensais jamais
que je serais un créateur de contenu.
Donc,
avoir cette expérience
c'est un novel.
Et je veux juste
que vous soyez en train de le entendre.
Très bien.
Oui, oui, vraiment.
C'est vraiment
juste quelque chose
que,
encore,
nous avons commencé
parce que
c'est une idée
et comme nous l'avons fait,
c'est assez valable.

Et vous savez,
voir les gens
évoquer sur ça
et comme
je ne sais,
commenter sur les épisodes
et des trucs comme ça,
c'est
assez grand.
Donc,
oui,
on aimerait entendre
plus de vous.
Si c'est,
si vous êtes en train de
entendre le podcast
et vous en avez aimé,
s'il vous plaît,
nous le sachons.
Juste
tombe en ligne
et toujours
ça always helps
et nous sommes toujours
ici
pour faire des connections.
Et vous savez ce que
si vous êtes intéressés
sur le podcast,
nous aimerions
parler.
Juste
vous en prenez.
Et si vous êtes intéressés
en devenir un membre
et comme
vous avez aimé
supporter le podcast,
vous avez bien sûr
d'avoir des news
sur ce sujet.
Nous sommes actuellement
en train de le travailler.
Oui.
D'accord.
Oui.
Donc,
c'est tout pour cette semaine
l'épisode de DevTools FM.
Faites surement
nous suivre sur YouTube
et où vous pouvez
consommer votre podcast.
Merci d'avoir regardé.
Merci, tout le monde.